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Muzzles are stigmatized, because they are often associated with dogs who are aggressive. But the truth is, dogs wear muzzles for many reasons. Muzzles can give dogs more freedom, humans more peace of mind, and a safer community for all to live in.

In this episode, I talk with Amy Creaven, owner of Trust Your Dog, a company that makes custom biothane products to expand your dog’s world. We dive into all aspects of muzzles and training including:

• How to ensure your muzzle is bite proof
• Muzzle training hacks anyone can do
• How to ensure a proper fit
• Options for brachycephalic dogs
• What to do with dogs who resource guard their muzzles
• And so much more!

About Amy:

Amy is a recovered registered nurse, a Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner who worked with reactive dogs prior to the pandemic, and now a custom muzzle maker. She lives at home with her family, 3 chaos floofs, and a harem of chickens.

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Email: Admin@trust-your-dog.com
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Transcript

[00:00:00] I am Jessica Wheatcraft, and this is Rethinking Reactivity, A podcast designed to educate, empower, and equip the modern handler of reactive dogs. Whether you have a reactive dog or you help people with their reactive dogs, you’re in the right place.

Jessica: I wish that Muzzles didn’t carry the stigma that they do, but I get it. People see a dog wearing a muzzle and immediately assume it’s aggressive, and sometimes that is the case and sometimes it’s not. This is a podcast about reactive dogs, and so I’m going to guess that most of my listeners have a dog or work with a dog that has strong reactions to something people, dogs, cats, vet visits, the groomer, you name it.

And in those cases, sometimes it [00:01:00] makes the most sense to teach the dog to comfortably wear a muzzle. While a properly fitted muzzle will restrict a dog from biting, it can actually give a dog more freedom. Freedom for more movement. Freedom for a safer introduction to a person or dog. Freedom to ride on public transportation.

For dogs with Pica freedom to be off leash. Freedom for a less restrictive veterinary exam. Freedom to get to know the newly adopted cat. There are so many reasons why your dog may need a muzzle at some point in their life, and I like to think of it like this. It’s better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Today we’re gonna talk to Amy Craven, a dog trainer turned muzzle designer, and the owner of Trust Your Dog, which makes custom Biothane [00:02:00] products to expand your dog’s world. We talk about all aspects of muzzles and muzzle training, but specifically the trickier scenarios such as what to do about dogs whose faces are hard to fit, or for dogs who resource guard their muzzles and what you can do about it.

She gives us a ton of insight, and I think you’ll find this to be really informative. Let’s dive in.

Amy, thank you so much for coming on the show. I’m excited to talk to you today. I’m so excited to be here and talk to you too. Awesome. I’m wondering if we could start with you sharing more about how your company trust your dog began.

Amy: Yeah. So trust your dog. I was a dog trainer and I was working with a lot of different dogs a lot of behavioral cases. Mm-hmm. And what I was finding is that coming from my standpoint of [00:03:00] doing no harm, right, and having my clients with goals of we need to be able to allow people to walk into our house, or we need to be able to walk past other dogs in close proximity and having these dogs with really extreme histories you know, of doing a lot of damage.

I was having a hard time convincing their owners to wear muzzles.

Jessica: Yeah,

Amy: when we were getting to that point in their training process of like, okay, we’re 99% sure that this dog is gonna be successful, but that 1% isn’t worth it to me to put anybody else at risk. So when I wanted to get my clients into Muzzles, the biggest stigmas that they were facing were one that they, they didn’t wanna make their dog look scarier than they already were,

Jessica: right?

Amy: Mm-hmm. Um, and they also didn’t want to scare anybody else by having their dog with like this big, scary looking muzzle, which already has a [00:04:00] stigma. So I started making them muzzles just for my own clients. Mm-hmm. And then 2020 COVID happened and I had to stay home with my kids. And so it was just a really nice pivot.

So that’s how trust your dog and this rendition. Started out.

Jessica: Wow. Yeah. Hey, I did not know that, that you started making muzzles for your own clients.

Amy: Yep. They’ve come a long way.

Jessica: Gonna say that’s pretty clever. From a design aspect, how did you figure out how to even make a muzzle?

Amy: Well, I mean, so I’ve always been pretty crafty. Okay. Looking at the things that are on the market and knowing that Biothane is super colorful and flexible and comfortable and you know, so being crafty, the mechanical aspect of things was there. I knew that I would figure that out. Yeah. But then creating something that’s a little bit more specific to.

What my clients were wanting. You know, they wanted to [00:05:00] be able to feed treats and they wanted something that would be a little bit more bite resilient than the other biothane items out there on the market. So I do still have the standard biothane muzzles, but I’ve also upgraded a couple of models. So I have the vinyl, which is a little bit more bite proof, actually a lot more bite proof.

And then also the biothane is just so pretty that everybody loves it. I’ve also been able to reinforce the front of that with some steel bars, so it’s not perfect, but, um, it’s definitely a lot more resilient than a lot of other custom muzzles on the market.

Jessica: So, yes, yes. I want to dive into what makes a muzzle bite proof versus not bite proof more because it’s a very common misconception that if you have a muzzle on a dog that somehow it’s going to be unable to bite anything and that’s not true.

And that it would be really helpful if you could share with us how can you tell the difference between a [00:06:00] muzzle that is indeed bite proof and then one that is not.

Amy: Yeah, so I, with my own products, I use that term very loosely because the bite resilience of a muzzle kind of depends on a couple of different factors.

One, the actual basket, right? Like is the basket rigid? Because if a dog can bend the muzzle, they’re just gonna fold it into their mouth and now they’ve got an oven, MIT on while they’re biting you. Like, that’s not super helpful.

Okay. So, you know, you’re looking for a basket that’s super rigid. Um, but also it kind of comes down to how the muzzle can be secured onto the dog too. Um, you know, if the dog can pull the muzzle off or if the collar aspect of the muzzle slips over their ears, um, during an altercation, or even if another dog or human pulls it off of them, mid altercation now [00:07:00] it’s, ineffective because it’s no longer a barrier between the dog’s mouth and the outside world.

Jessica: Yeah. So you are using a phrase called you, um, resiliency or with the, the bite resiliency. Is that how you describe it?

Amy: Uh, yeah, I guess so. I think yeah. Bite resilience.

Jessica: Yeah, that makes sense. Instead of thinking. Is it bite proof or not bite proof? You just brought up many reasons of, even if the basket was pretty rigid made out of material that, certainly a dog couldn’t wrap its teeth around, but yet the muzzle actually just comes off of the dog.

Then that certainly wouldn’t make it bite proof either. So I like that. I like the idea of, of thinking it is more the resiliency of it and therefore it, it depends on the material itself, but then it also depends on how secure it is to the dog. So you mentioned that you reinforce some of your biothane muzzles to make them more bite proof.

So I’m wondering if we could talk a little bit more about the [00:08:00] material and why that matters. Specifically for preventing dogs from biting like an oven, MIT. Yeah.

Amy: Yeah. So Biothane is super soft, which is a pro for a lot of people. Mm-hmm. Um, ’cause I get a lot of, a lot of people coming to me with dogs that are currently wearing muzzles that are super rigid, but they’re rubbing and they’re raw or they’re, you know, stabbing the dog in the eye when they’re taking treats or, you know, not stabbing, but that makes it sound awful.

But, you know, it’s less than ideal, so they wanna go to the biothane, which is really, really soft. But again, you know, it just folds under pressure. Yes. Um, which works for keeping, people away, you know? Mm-hmm. Because you’ve got some, like a, a nonverbal way of communicating, Hey, maybe not, don’t come over here.

You know, it has its pros and its comms but when under pressure, the dogs are just biting through them. Yeah. Um, so I’ve taken some steel bars and fitted [00:09:00] them. With holes so that they’re actually riveted into the front of the muzzle. You can’t see them, but then the front of the muzzle doesn’t fold.

The sides of the muzzles are still soft and foldy. And then it’s also much softer around the dog’s eyes.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Amy: But that tends to work for a high percentage of dogs that have bite histories. Yeah,

Jessica: Yeah, that makes sense. And then you mentioned you also have a vinyl muzzle that is also more bite proof, and can you share more about why it is more bite proof?

Amy: Yeah. So the vinyl is a much thicker and much more sturdy. Um, material when under pressure, especially during a bite scenario where the dog is actually like striking and then withdrawing. Mm-hmm. Um, it doesn’t fold. It’s a lot softer than say, a metal basket muzzle.

Jessica: Yeah. Um,

Amy: because there is some give to it, so it’s a lot nicer to get hit with a vinyl muzzle than it is to get hit with a, a metal muzzle.

Yeah. But ’cause of the thickness of the vinyl, um, and the way that it’s folded, it [00:10:00] doesn’t fold inward into the dog’s mouth. Got it.

Jessica: Got it. I think I’ve also seen with the vinyl muzzles that they appear to give more space between the dog’s actual mouth itself and the edge of the muzzle. Meaning it’s almost like there’s a big bubble around the dog’s mouth.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s kind of like, I guess putting like a bowl around the dog’s mouth more than, yeah. More than really fitting it with anything. Mm-hmm. Um, both of the models that I create are more like creating bubbles or baskets around the dog’s mouth than like keeping their mouth closed.

Yes. Which is important from a safety concern. ’cause if they’re gonna be wearing it for any length of time, they need to be able to pant and drink water. Those are just things that are required for dogs biologically. They need to be able to breathe and cool themselves off.

Jessica: Mm-hmm. But, um,

Amy: yeah, so both of them are designed to allow for full pants, but the vinyl, I think because it is clear and you can see through it, it does [00:11:00] make it look like there’s a lot more pants space in it.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Amy: In the, the biothane.

Jessica: That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. And with Muzzles, as you were referring to, how sometimes they can be too small. Right? And that’s not what we’re going for when it comes to dogs wearing muzzles for long periods of time and there’s the grooming muzzles or the ones that they use at the vet’s office and those, I think when I have clients who say, oh, I got my dog a muzzle, I will ask to see it because a lot of my clients.

Their idea of what a muzzle is could vary drastically compared to the next client. So some clients think baskets, some people think grooming muzzle. And I will say in my experience, I have had most clients who either pull out a grooming muzzle and that is what their dog is currently wearing. Or they have another muzzle that is way too small for their dog where they can’t open their [00:12:00] mouth all the way.

And so that is actually how I got to know you because I thought, okay, there has to be a, a solution out here with these dogs who really need to wear muzzles that they’re comfortable in, but how do we even find the right muzzle for them? I’m wondering if you could speak to just the importance of fit and comfortability and why the idea of making custom muzzles is so important because they’re really.

Isn’t like a one size fits all type of muzzle for dogs. And that’s why it is also very tricky for our clients to find the right one.

Amy: Yeah. And I will say that like muzzles that are too small or grooming, muzzles do have a place if they do have a time and a place, like if you’re at a vet clinic and you don’t have a muzzle that your dog is comfortable in.

Those muzzles are great to keep staff safe while getting your animal the care that they need. But that said, those muzzles should probably be only on for the length of a procedure, which is gonna be five minutes or [00:13:00] less. And I do a lot of education with veterinarian students too on that. So they, they learn a little bit about muzzles there too.

But regardless when we’re looking at a custom fit for dogs, especially when we’re working for behavioral issues and they’re going to be in it for longer than five minutes, they need to be able to pan. A lot of muzzles restrict that ability for them to pant, which is important because dogs cool themselves by panting.

And they also breathe primarily that way. And if you’re in a stressful situation and you can’t take a full deep breath, you’re not gonna be able to calm yourself as quickly as you would. Um, if you are able to actually take that nice, be deep, soothing breath. But that, that’s just from a safety concern.

And then also from like that emotional regulation is, you know, really important to allow them that space to breathe. But when we’re looking at a fit for a muzzle, we wanna make sure that their pant is unrestricted. Mm-hmm. They should be able to open their mouth [00:14:00] fully, but not necessarily for a full yawn.

Some people. You know, want their dog to be able to yawn in their muzzle, and I’m happy to make them a muzzle that big, but sometimes they just get excessively large. Mm-hmm. And they’re just flopping around on their face and I’m like, oh, okay. Well it’s, it’s a barrier. Uhhuh. If they’re happy with that, that’s fine, but, um, okay.

So just to be able to pan unrestricted the bottom of their jaw might be able to just touch the bottom of the muzzle but not, not uncomfortably so.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Amy: And then we’re looking at a length of the muzzle too. We want it pretty much the length of the nose. I like to have the, the front of the muzzle pretty close to their mouth, um, so that when you’re giving treats, the muzzle isn’t sliding back into their eyes.

Yeah. And then. You want the, the, the part right in front of their eyes to sit about a quarter of an inch below their eyes. Um, so that it’s not, you know, constantly jamming in their face. Mm-hmm. Their eyes are pretty sensitive, as is their nose. But, you know, we wanna make sure that the [00:15:00] muzzle isn’t rubbing in any weird spots.

Um, and just, yeah. Unrestricted, comfortable, but staying on.

Jessica: Yeah, that’s important. I’m glad that you brought up the concept of where the eyes are because that’s really common that when we are trying to feed them treats through the muzzle. To try to get the treat to the dog. We often apply pressure to the front of the muzzle, which then therefore pushes it back more into their eyes.

Yep. Which is why when they’re made out of material that’s not biothane or the vinyl, that is why it can get someone comfortable for the dog because they’re essentially having a hard plastic or something similar being pushed into their eyes and um, and or if they’re trying to drink water, right?

If they dunk their head into a water bowl and they’re trying to reach the water, then they are also having to feel that pressure on their faces when it comes to. Getting like the treat hole or some way to deliver food [00:16:00] to the dog. I’m wondering if you not only could describe a little bit more about how you make these treat holes, but then still have the muzzle be bite proof.

’cause I think or bite resilient. Um, because I think somebody might be wondering that, well wait a minute. If you could feed treats through it then doesn’t that mean that the dog could still bite? Let’s start with that question first.

Amy: Yeah. So the treat holes I generally put right in front of their mouths.

There are some muzzles on the market, which are great. But there are common muzzles used on the market where the treat hole is actually under the dog’s chin. So you have to move the muzzle up. And yes, I will say with any muzzle, it’s a new mechanical process for both the dog and the human to figure out how to get treats into the muzzle.

Mm-hmm. Um, and the treat holes that I make are bigger gaps in the muzzle than you normally see around the basket just to allow the food access to go inside. Um, generally the holds aren’t big enough for the dogs to get their teeth on the outside. [00:17:00] Mm-hmm. I have seen dogs pick up toys because they can, they smush the toy and then the toys squirts into the muzzle and then they can kind of grab it with their teeth and bring it through

Jessica: uhhuh.

Amy: And certainly, you know, if you were to stick your fingers in there, you would be able to get bit too. Yeah. Um, but for the most part, um, the dogs can’t get their teeth through those holes ’cause they’re small enough to create that barrier. That said, I mean, some people opt to leave the treat holes off because they’re using muzzles for things like their dog eats, rocks and sticks and pica issues.

Mm-hmm. Um, another one of those reasons to have a dog wear a muzzle, but, um, yeah, the, the treat holes are generally small enough to keep. Most bodily parts out.

Jessica: Mm-hmm. Um,

Amy: but allow treats to go in. Yeah. Um, and I certainly have dogs that are able to snuffle treats off the ground too, if that’s a, a method that you’re using and it kind of adds a layer of complexity to those problems.

So more enrichment I guess. But yeah, they’re [00:18:00] just, they’re just tinier holes placed right in front of the dog’s mouth to ease, treat delivery so that you’re not having to manipulate the muzzle as much as as much as you do with other models, but yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. That makes sense. What are some of your favorite types of treats that work really well in terms of the way that we could dispense the food to the dog to make it easier?

Amy: So I use tiny, like pea-sized treats for my own dogs, or I will use like lickable pouches. Mm-hmm. So I’ll either stuff my own or, um, I don’t know. Have you heard of bark pouches? I have heard of this. I’m in love with them. They’re super high value and super easy and, but it’s just like like baby food pouches.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Amy: That’s another one too. Um, but meat flavored baby food pouches. But yeah, you can just stick the little nozzle in the end and then the dog is licking. Um, yeah, sometimes it gets into the front of the muzzle. And I’m just usually aware of what this particular dog’s issues are because if you get food onto the muzzle, or if the dog is [00:19:00] eating lots of food in the muzzle, it can become a resource.

Um, so if the dog is a resource guarder, now you’ve got a resource that the dog is actually wearing and they don’t want you to take it off. Yeah. And that becomes slightly problematic. But I’ve got a few things that we’ve worked around with that as well, as far as buckles and getting them off. Yeah, so I use tiny treats that go in the hole easily.

Jessica: Yeah. Um,

Amy: it can be kind of hard for people with dexterity problems.

Jessica: Mm-hmm. And in

Amy: those cases, I would go with a lickable pouch ’cause it’s much easier to squeeze, um, and get that nozzle in the hole than it would be to actually get treats into the hole.

Jessica: Yeah. I’m glad that you brought that up.

Those pouches are really fantastic. As are just like squeeze cheese if people can’t mm-hmm. Something with a nozzle, something like that, where the nozzle itself is really small and the food is softer so that way the dog isn’t, I mean, it should, if the muzzles fitted correctly, should be able to chew anything really easily anyways.

But certainly just getting it to the dog, that does make it easier because you have that [00:20:00] extra, inch or so that you can put into the muzzle, which then decreases having to put pressure on the front of the muzzle, which would, um, push it back on the dog.

Amy: Absolutely.

Jessica: Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

In the past when I’ve used Muzz that have the treat hole on the bottom I have found that using the cream cheese packets can also work well because those are a little bit more bendable and a little easier to just kind of get in under there. But I have found that sometimes if the treat hole is round, um, or just smaller in the front, then I find then the cream cheese packets are a little bit too wide.

Um, so I do find the thing with the nozzle seems to make more sense there.

Amy: Yep. Yep. Totally.

Jessica: Yeah. So you mentioned that, uh, you might not wanna have a hole on the front of the muzzle if the dog has PIKA and is eating things that they should not. Mm-hmm. And I am glad that you brought that up because it’s another really common reason why dogs wear muzzles.

It’s not because, you know, they all are going to be a safety risk for the general [00:21:00] public. It’s, um, could be many, many reasons. You know, why dogs are wearing muzzles. Do you wanna share more about that in terms of why dogs wear them?

Amy: Absolutely. So I have lot, a lot of different reasons that dogs wear muzzles.

The pica and then aggression are probably the top two. But certainly I’ve had people that have ordered muzzles from me or, or anywhere, um, honestly, and then use them as like a medical restraint. It’s instead of using like a big Elizabeth and cone, um mm-hmm on the dog’s head, so now they’ve got something so between the dog’s mouth and whatever wound they’re trying to protect.

So that’s another great reason. Mm-hmm. Sometimes people just have their dogs wear the muzzle for, training purposes, or they’re in an environment where they don’t want people approaching their dog unannounced. So they’ll have their dog wear the muzzle and then people are like, oh, what is that beautiful thing on your dog’s face?

Why is it wearing a muzzle? And it gives people an opportunity to get curious about it rather than just [00:22:00] approaching dogs end petting dogs, right? Because in our culture, it’s pretty commonplace to expect dogs to enjoy being petted or approached and fluffed. And I think that’s one of the biggest issues for a lot of dogs is that if people just didn’t approach them, they wouldn’t have an issue.

So, yeah. You know, it’s hard for them to wear a sign that says, please ask, or, give me space and that sort of thing. But a muzzle is a great nonverbal way to be like, Hey, maybe you should think twice about this dog.

Jessica: Exactly. Yes. The thing with the muzzles because of just the way that they look right.

Because of the basket, you know, over the dog’s face. And all of my clients always use the Hannibal Lecter example. They all say that, I want my dog to look like that. Of course there is still this stigma, right, of dogs who are wearing muzzles. I feel like it’s gotten better over the last maybe five years.

I feel like I’ve been seeing it become a bit more mainstream online and different places like that. And also just with my own [00:23:00] clients, having already started the muzzle training process long before they consulted with a professional. So clearly the message is getting out there.

That muzzles can be very helpful for a variety of reasons, um, but also to help keep people safe because in. Our culture as you, as you said, we a tend to live with dogs in very tight spaces, uh, making it difficult to maneuver and get enough space when you need to. But then we also have a culture where it’s very common for people to just want to approach every single dog and interact with it.

And that’s tough for our dogs, especially if they’re even just a little unsure about people. That puts a lot of pressure on them.

Amy: It really, really does. It does.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah.

Amy: And I think, you know, in our culture too, I think the big stigma, or maybe it doesn’t all come from this, but in our culture, like we have freedom of speech, right?

And the muzzle is seen as like this big symbol of silence, [00:24:00] right? We’re silencing the dogs. We’re actually not silencing the dogs. I’m taking this bigger than it needs to be, I think. But I actually think that it allows us to make everybody safe and assuming that the muzzle fits well and your training program is going well, and you’re actually listening to the dog and what they’re saying, all of a sudden the muzzle is just a safety measure.

We’re still listening to them and they’re still able to speak to us even if they’re wearing this particular item.

Jessica: I never thought about it like that, but I think you bring up a really great point that it does seem like we are silencing dogs in some way, because a lot of people, you know, the first question they ask is, okay, but can they even eat or open their mouth with a muzzle on?

If that’s even just the most basic thing that they’re wondering, of course they would, would maybe wonder if the dog could even bark or communicate and so forth. And certainly with a well-fitted muzzle, that’s not the case at all. They very easily bark and do everything that they would normally do, um, just with the muzzle on.

Amy: Yep. [00:25:00] And they should be able to do all normal dog things with the muzzle on. Yes. It’s essentially like, it’s just another piece of equipment just like a harness or a collar. Mm-hmm. It takes a little bit longer for dogs to get used to wearing it. The first time you put on a hat or a pair of sunglasses, it feels a little awkward, but

Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah, absolutely. I’m curious, when you were training what were the parameters that you would use that would lead you towards recommending a muzzle to a client or not?

Amy: That’s a good question. So when I first started training, my parameters were we would start training with the muzzle when we got to that stage where we wanted to start reintroducing.

Mm-hmm. And I think that was a little what’s the word I’m looking for? It wasn’t proactive enough, honestly. Mm-hmm. Okay. So I would say like any dog that’s showing behaviors that are concerning

I would start muzzle training these days much earlier. Yeah. Probably bringing it up in the first [00:26:00] session or two.

Just to kind of start planting the seed, especially with the owners, if it was, you know, going to be an issue with them or not. Um, as far as getting past the stigma of it, because it’s easy to do muzzle training while you’re also starting the process on a couple of other behaviors or counter conditioning protocols.

And then when you’re ready to start reintroducing triggers, you’ve already got this tool set up and you can just keep rolling with the training process. Mm-hmm. Versus having to stop and stall out to train this. Really annoying behavior and it’s not super fun to train ’cause it’s boring.

You know, it’s not a flashy trick and it’s not something that you’re gonna like, be like, oh my gosh, all of a sudden my dog can walk past another dog. Or my dog said hi to that person with a loose swaggy tail. You know, it’s not, it’s not flashy, it’s just something that needs to be done. Mm-hmm. Um, so it’s not a lot of fun to do, but [00:27:00] if it’s already done, then you can move on with your training and get to the sexier stuff.

Jessica: Yes. Yeah. And it also takes time for most dogs to acclimate to a muzzle anyways. So it does make sense to do it over a period of, you know, weeks to a couple of months as you’re starting this program. Rather than waiting until, oh, now we’re going to start exposing this dog. And then somehow either have to delay that process or try to do a crash course with acclimating the muzzle, and then that just puts the dog in a position where they’re probably forced to wear it sooner than they were ready for.

Amy: Exactly. And we want them to be ready to wear it. And so that they’re displaying all of the behaviors that we would normally see, even if they weren’t wearing it. Because I get a lot of reports from people saying, oh, my dog wears this muzzle and they’re perfect. And I’m like, oh, it’s ’cause you’re suppressing their natural behaviors and they’re not super comfortable wearing the muzzle.

So having them comfortable wearing the muzzle allows them to. Really display the behaviors that they’re truly feeling so that you can work through that and get to the root [00:28:00] cause.

Jessica: Yeah, I’m glad that you brought that up because yes, dogs, when they’re uncomfortable with something on their bodies, often become more inhibited.

Mm-hmm. Um, and so then I could see how somebody would interpret that as, wow, they’re being really good when they’re wearing this muzzle. Um, but yet they aren’t really displaying everything that they would.

When it comes to how you like to introduce muzzles and building positive associations to it, turning it into some muzzle games, what are some of your go-tos?

Amy: So, one I wanna take into consideration, like I talked before, is this dog a resource guarder? Because that’s gonna change the way that I introduce a muzzle.

Jessica: Yeah.

Amy: For a few different reasons. But I generally, if the dog isn’t a resource guarder or I’m not concerned about them guarding an inanimate object, I will take the muzzle and I will prop it up in their food bowl and I will feed them their food, their meals, and their muzzle, [00:29:00] and I’ll actually store the muzzle in their food bin so that it becomes part of my daily process of like, okay, we’re just going to eat out of the muzzle and I’m setting myself up for success to be able to get some training done every day.

Jessica: Yeah, and

Amy: it’s not a, like a pressure process with that. It’s just we’re feeding, every time you go to the dog’s food bin, they’re usually super excited because they know that it’s mealtime. So if you’re pulling out the muzzle, all of a sudden they’re getting excited, they’re seeing the muzzle, they’re still excited, they’re getting their meal and.

It’s a win-win situation.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Amy: Um, that said, I will allow the dog to eat from the muzzle, and that kind of allows them to feel something on their face while they’re associating it with something positive. And then also removing the human’s like stress or mechanical skills so that we’re not muddying the training process there.

Then I will take the muzzle out and just show it to them. Usually by that point, you [00:30:00] know, they’ve had a couple of meals in the muzzle and they’re like, oh, where’s, where’s the food? And they just stick their face in. And that gives me the opportunity to say yes or good mark, and then feed in the muzzle or outside of the muzzle if they’re a resource guarder.

So they’re getting used to just shoving their snoot in the muzzle. And then from there, my next step is to get the dog to move in the muzzle before even fasting in it on. So I’ll have them stick their face in the muzzle and then I’ll pull it back a couple of inches so that they have to move forward to keep their snoot in the muzzle.

Jessica: Mm-hmm. And

Amy: we just play this follow me game can you follow the muzzle around? Um, so they’re getting used to this thing slapping around their face and mm-hmm. At the same time, a lot of people introduce these muzzles. They get them strapped on and then they go, my dog won’t walk. And that’s the whole point is I need to have the muzzle on a walk.

Um, so I introduced the walking before we strap it. Yeah. Yeah. While I’m doing this, I might also be working on things like a chin rest and handling [00:31:00] around their heads so that when I go to clip the muzzle, they’re not shocked mm-hmm. That I’m no longer holding this thing in their face and I can actually move my hands around their ears.

This is especially important for dogs with body handling issues.

Jessica: Yeah.

Amy: And it’s also super helpful for, you know, future vet visits or any sort of husbandry creator that you need to do at home anyway. Mm-hmm. Um, so extra bonus points, but then I’ll just, start moving the clips around their ears. And might clip it on for a second, take it off, clip it on for a second, give a few treats, or ask ’em for a nose target or a shake or some, some behavior that they’re super fluent at.

Yeah. And then take it off. Um, but slowly starting to introduce some duration and some activity while wearing the muzzle. Mm-hmm. It gets so quickly acclimated to just,

Jessica: just another thing that we’re wearing. Yeah. I like how you made a great point that a lot of times when we start with clipping it on the dog, they do often freeze or then they try to pot off right away.

And [00:32:00] so I would say I’m, I train it very similar to you in the sense that I want a lot of movement, um, and I want the dog to be moving towards the muzzle versus me moving the muzzle towards the dog. And I also use a marker word to mark when they dunk their nose in. And some of the things that I’ve found helpful when I’ve done this with clients is I will start with a starter muzzle.

Just something really cheap that just to get the dog used to something around their face. Because most of the time when my clients go to buy a muzzle online, it doesn’t really fit their dog and they’re having to go through like two or three different versions of buying and returning and buying and returning.

And so I eventually started suggesting for any of my clients whose dogs are gonna wear the muzzle for a long period of time, I explained to them it’s well worth it just to get a custom fitted muzzle, um, because the process of getting a muzzle that’s actually fitted correctly it makes the whole experience far more pleasant for the dog.

[00:33:00] But because we need to get them acclimated to a muzzle sooner than later, I just use a starter muzzle. Yep.

One of the things that I have found helpful is.

One, it’s difficult for my clients to feed the treat inside the muzzle at the same time with their dog, you know, keeping their head in there. And sometimes it means that the treats are dropping and different things like that. And so one of the strategies that I started using was teaching the dog to keep their nose in the muzzle.

In the sense that I just started delaying my marker word a little bit more at a time. So that way the dog was staying really still. And also that they knew that the food was always going to happen in the muzzle. And then I would play around with the straps, not necessarily strap it, but that way the dog was just simply holding still.

And that was something that I found not only allowed the dog to really understand, oh, I’m offering this behavior on my own. Meaning I’m not [00:34:00] getting tricked because one of. Things that I tend to see is that people will put the food in first. They’ll use peanut butter or something, and then they’ll just slap it on the dog and buckle it really quickly.

And I feel like that there’s less consent from the dog’s point of view, but there’s also, you can’t really gauge how comfortable the dog really is because, um, we’re essentially just luring them by putting the food already in the muzzle. And so I started taking this approach of just marking stillness and then eventually delaying the marker to a point where the dog would come dunk its nose in the muzzle.

I would then have my hands free and be able to clip it behind their ears. And then they finally got their food reward. And that was something that was really helpful in my practice because the dogs would actually stay still until the muzzle came all the way on and it reduced them.

Pulling away and it made it easier for my clients to actually get the muzzle on the dog. [00:35:00]

Amy: Yeah, I absolutely agree. The smear food inside the muzzle is definitely, feels kind of like a bait and switch to me. And then when you’re not getting the dog’s consent or they’re feeling like they don’t have a whole lot of autonomy mm-hmm.

And the autonomy is such a primary reinforcer, it’s just a basic need for, humans and dogs. Uh, but when you take that away from them and then you slap this muzzle on, they start to realize that they don’t have a whole lot of control in the situation. And they might not, but if you give them a little bit more control, then they’re so much more willing to come back and work with you the next time.

Yes.

Jessica: I know. If we could drive that home to people that are doing the muzzle training. If you take it slower on the front end and your dog is an active and willing participant, you’re setting the stage for the dog to be comfortable with it for life rather than trying to cut corners and jumping ahead, and then the dog is [00:36:00] never going to be comfortable with it.

Amy: And when you’re building that trust on something like wearing the muzzle between the owner and the dog, the dog is gonna be so much more willing to trust that owner or trainer down the road when you introduce ’em to something else too, that might be just as concerning to them. So it is, yeah. If you’re breaking the trust on the muzzle and tricking them into wearing it, how are they gonna be able to trust you in something that’s a little bit more concerning to them?

Jessica: Yeah. No, that’s fair.

Amy: I love it.

Jessica: Do you have any other muzzle training hacks that you found helpful? Oh man.

Amy: Hacks. I mean, I think we talked about a lot of ’em

Jessica: yeah. Yeah. One of the things with the starter muzzles that I will use is if I have a dog who’s particularly sensitive to wearing the muzzle specifically when they’re in motion, I have cut the front of the muzzle off so that way there was not only less material, but that way we could also use play. So we’ve got like a ball or something that the dog can actually grab while it’s wearing the muzzle [00:37:00] granted that there’s no way that this is going to prevent a bite because we took the front of the muzzle off.

But I have found that to be really, really helpful for those dogs who just really love play and if we just need to get the dog more comfortable wearing the muzzle, just that it’s around their faces, you know, hooked behind their ears and they can still do other things. Um, so that was one hack that I found to be really, really helpful if I had a dog who needed to have that be part of their training experience.

Amy: The other hack that I will do for even like a cheaper starter muzzle is yogurt bowls or yogurt cups, like, you know, like little small containers. Mm-hmm. You can cut the eggs off of them, um, and you could even fit them with like a little bit of string or a strap. Mm-hmm. So they can like a muzzle, but it’s not actually a muzzle and get used to sticking their face in something.

And even just using those as like enrichment toys. Like a lot of people, myself included, you know, when I’m done with the yogurt, the quart of yogurt, I’ll let my dogs clean it out. So they’re really used to sticking their [00:38:00] face in things.

Jessica: Yes.

Amy: It’s just one more thing to add into that layer.

Jessica: Yes. I’m glad that you brought that up.

Yeah. Starter muzzles don’t necessarily have to be an actual muzzle. It could be anything that goes over the dog’s face. So a yogurt cup or even just like a paper cup that would be really easy to use.

And you know, I thought about, one thing that we didn’t chat about earlier when we talked about securing the muzzle, is in terms of making sure that the muzzle is actually secured around the dog’s neck.

Do you wanna speak to how we can ensure that the muzzle doesn’t actually come off?

Amy: So there are some muzzles that just have two straps that go behind the dog’s ears. Um, I’ve found that those tend to be the easiest ones for the dogs to flip off because they’re just secured to the dog’s back of the head, but there isn’t any like closure device underneath their chin so that there isn’t like a closed circle there.

There are a lot of muzzles too that also have like a complete, almost like a collar that just clips around behind the dog’s [00:39:00] ears. Mm-hmm. Um, that’s the type of device that I use to secure the muzzle to the dogs. And if they’re using the collar method, you want to make sure that you yourself can’t pull the collar off the dog’s ears.

So, like you were saying, you know, securing the muzzle without actually putting the dog’s Sno in the muzzle. Mm-hmm. I’ll have clients take the collar and put it around the dog’s neck and then try and pull it off. If they can pull it off. It needs to be tighter.

Jessica: Yeah.

Amy: Then from there, just making sure that the straps are adjusted so that the dog can’t slide it any farther forward off their Sno.

Jessica: Yeah, that makes sense. So what we’re looking for, if somebody is on the market for a muzzle and they’re wanting to make sure that there’s some way to attach it to the dog, what you’re saying is that with your muzzles, you have a loop that you have built in that the collar slides through, I’m assuming. Um, or how does the loop work in case somebody has never seen this and is trying to picture it in their minds?

Amy: Yeah. So not a loop necessarily, but like a [00:40:00] full caller. So if you had your dog’s collar on mm-hmm. Can you pull that collar off over their head? Most of the time people, you know, the dog’s collars are actually pretty loose around their, their neck ’cause they’re loose for identification or the dog isn’t like a big pull or an escape artist or whatnot.

So it’s not that big of a deal. But with the muzzle, if that collar is loose enough that you can pull it over their head, then the muzzle itself can also be pulled off their head. Yeah. It becomes much easier for the dog to grab hold of because it’s actually in front of their face. It’s not on their neck.

So they’ll, they’ll grab hold of it with their paws or their due claws and then just pull their head back out of it. Yes, yes. Um, so having that closed circle where the dog can’t pull it over their ears, um, allows you to have this foundation anchor. And then the straps, I have cheek straps, and then you can also add on a forehead strap.

For my models. Mm-hmm. So the dog has a really short nose. You wanna have a forehead strap so that they can’t pull the top [00:41:00] off over their snoot. Um, and the forehead strap runs from their nose, between their eyes and then back to the collar. And then the cheek straps run along the side of the dog’s face and that allows you to either allow the muzzle to fall forward or pull it back closer to the dog’s eyes so that they can’t pull their nose out of it as well.

Does that make sense?

Jessica: Got it. Yeah. So we’ve got these straps and those straps are connected to the collar.

Amy: They are. And they’re connected to the collar with screws. In my case, there are a lot of other, you know, muzzles out there that maybe aren’t adjustable in their sewn in place.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Amy: Totally acceptable as well.

Um, some muzzles will use buckles

Jessica: mm-hmm. As

Amy: well, you know, rather than screws so that you can adjust the holes that the. The muzzles are lining up on.

Jessica: Okay. Yep, that makes sense. And I’m glad you brought that up because I realized I’m like, Hmm, we didn’t actually talk about how the muzzle doesn’t come off of the dog’s head.

Um, because you’re right, there are some muzzles that are just sold as like standalone, you know, with there isn’t any sort of strap. And [00:42:00] those are also ones that I get a little nervous seeing because it could be very easy for the dog to just pull it right off of their faces.

Amy: Yep. Absolutely.

Jessica: Yes.

So in terms of the dogs that are really difficult to fit, so I’m thinking of French bulldogs, um, anything with like a really, really flat face or any, I think sometimes just where like the noses are either really, really long and narrow is another common one that I’ve seen.

So I’m curious for the dogs that are like very difficult to fit, why a, they really should consider getting a custom muzzle because it’s going to be very unlikely that they’re gonna find one that is gonna fit their dogs just straight off of the shelf. But in your experience, is there anything that, for these more difficult to fit dogs, if they can’t do a custom muzzle, is there anything that you found, like any sort of modification or something that some people have found that has been successful for them?

Amy: Yeah, so I have been able to create muzzles [00:43:00] for just about all types of dogs. Especially the brachiocephalic dogs. The ones with the, like the button noses and then they have these big jaws. We just create muzzles that are a little bit differently oriented, so we allow space for their jaw to come out in front of their nose, and then we make the nose really, really short.

And then having that forehead strapped to hold it in place on their face is really crucial. Yeah. But most, most of them have been successful in wearing them and adjusting to them, and both the vinyl and biothane models. And there are certainly other things out there on the market like big masks that actually cover the whole face.

I don’t know if you’ve seen the cat muzzles out there that are like, they’re like a hamster ball. Those might be a good option too. Okay. They’re kind of like a two piece ball and the animal can stick their head into the ball and then it slides over and closes around their neck. So it’s kind of like an Elizabethan collar, but it encloses their whole face. Interesting. Yeah. Look it up. It’s, it’s pretty, it’s a [00:44:00] pretty interesting version but it would work really well for small brachiocephalic dogs as well. And assuming that you’re not worried about them biting the owner, it would make treating them really easy.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, so the short nose dogs are definitely hard. The long and pointy nose dogs are actually pretty easy for us because we’re just creating the muzzle to their particular specifications. It just happens that there aren’t a lot of muzzles on the market to fit them perfectly.

Yeah. The other one that I have a hard time, or that I get a lot are like the big fat head pities or, mastiffs.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Amy: Cheeks are so wide.

Jessica: Yeah. And

Amy: lot of the bite proof muzzles that are out there on the market have metal bars that run along the cheeks that are too narrow. So they’re like pinching their cheeks.

It’s not necessarily that the basket doesn’t fit, but that the cheeks are pinching in on their face.

Jessica: Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Amy: And so a lot of people can modify those, you [00:45:00] spread ’em and wedge ’em further apart, but the, they’re not perfect.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Amy: Um, that way. And a lot of people are like, eh, I don’t really wanna put that much effort into it.

So the, the models that I have don’t actually extend past the cheeks, so they tend to work out pretty well and we can make ’em wider if need be.

Jessica: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I’ve seen what you’re referring to where their cheeks are so wide and it is digging into them, which, you know, also makes it uncomfortable.

So when you’re making a custom muzzle, if somebody is thinking, okay, well I wanna do this for my dog, and well first they have to get the measurements right, uh, to make sure that you get that. So I’m curious from your perspective, because you are having people contact you all the time and they want to have a custom muzzle for their dog, what are some things that would make the process easier for you to make sure that you’re actually giving them the product that is best for them and their dog?

What could a person do?

Amy: What I [00:46:00] generally require from my clients when they’re ordering a custom muzzle, because I wanna make sure that they’re getting a product that’s actually going to fit them. I know that they’re. My products aren’t cheap. They’re investing in their, their dog and this particular safety device.

So I wanna make sure that it’s going to fit them. I have them either take pictures of the measurements and one, even if the the picture isn’t correct, I can generally have like a tape measure or in the, the picture with the dog and I can get some perspective on actually how long the dog’s nose is mm-hmm.

Or how tall their snout is. And I can make some judgment calls based on that. So pictures are great. I also have people that will videotape themselves, which is a lot easier if it’s just you and you can set it up on like a tripod or using some, uh, toilet paper rolls. You can make a, a phone stand for your phone and just record yourself measuring your dog.

Jessica: Okay.

Amy: I also will do video calls I will have people hop on Zoom with me and I will [00:47:00] talk them through the measurements so that I’m making sure that they’re getting it the way that they want to. Then they don’t have to set up a camera and take still shots or anything like that.

And we can negotiate or discuss like, okay, well that measurement was taken with your dog’s mouth completely closed. Let’s add a few inches. Or, you know, depending on the dog size, let’s make a loop and see how that looks. Do you think your dog would be able to pant with that loop around their snoot and if not, we’ll adjust it and remeasure?

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Amy: I have people use a lot of food doing this too so that their dogs are having a pleasant time. Um, yes, but sometimes dogs don’t wanna be touched and they’re afraid of the tape measure. Mm-hmm. And those things come up. So I’ve actually created a, it’s kind of a measuring tape and it has a vertical measuring tape and a horizontal measuring tape that you can tape on the wall, and then you have the dog lick the wall opposing that.

So if you put the paper in the corner mm-hmm. And you have the dog licking the adjacent wall, and then [00:48:00] you take pictures from the side of your dog. So I can get a pretty good idea of how long the dog’s nose is using that method. Yeah. And I can also kind of estimate the panting height based on that method too.

Jessica: That’s very creative.

Amy: Yeah. And that was generally created for those docs that you couldn’t get close to or, I would have rescues contact me and say, we can’t touch this dog.

Jessica: Yeah. You

Amy: and I would say, set this up, put them in the exercise pen, put the exercise pen around the wall.

And we’ll, we’ll measure off with that.

Jessica: I like that. Do you still provide the measurement kits for trainers and other dog professionals?

Amy: I do. I actually just sent a whole bunch of them out to Clicker Expo this past weekend. Okay. Um, and then I just, I have a bunch here as well, but yes, so trainers, feel free to reach out to me.

I’m happy to provide you with a measuring kit that you can shove in your training bag. It also comes with a color wheel, so you can kind of show your clients the colors [00:49:00] that their muzzle might come in, and then it’ll walk you through like all the measuring process as well.

Jessica: Yes, I have one of those. And I found it to be immensely helpful because when I’m showing up to a client’s house and we’re determining that they need a muzzle, uh, so many of my clients, they get nervous about, well, I don’t know what to get and I don’t, the sizing and everything, and it just allowed me to walk them through it.

Like, Hey i’m gonna hold your hands for this. We are going to do the measurements together. If the dog was comfortable with it that way, I was there and I could either help be the one who was doing the measuring or helping to feed the dog, so that way they were staying a little bit more still so that their owner could do it.

And then I believe that you also had these little cards where you write the measurements down. And so as we were going through, I would write the measurements down and it was really just a very foolproof way of getting our clients the information that they needed. And that way they could order the muzzle and then they would get off running.

Amy: Absolutely. Yeah. [00:50:00] I try to make it as easy as I can for everybody involved. It’s not the easiest process. And I think a lot of people come to me after like hemming and hawing about it for months, which I feel really bad about it. I’m like, seriously? Like, let’s just hop on a call, get, go get your muzzles made.

But then, you know, like if one of my m ends up in your house and it doesn’t fit, let me know we have a, a pretty good process of making sure that we get you a muzzle that is going to fit. So

Jessica: yeah. Good, good. I like that. Yeah. ’cause sometimes even with the best of measurements, sometimes once you just get it on the dog, it might not fit exactly how you know it was intended.

Amy: Exactly. And sometimes it doesn’t show up the way that you wanted it to or the way that you envisioned it.

Jessica: And

Amy: now we’ve got a muzzle that we know what the measurements are and we can adjust from there. It gets really easy from there and a lot of times I have clients that are like, I can’t touch my dog, but they currently wear this muzzle and this is how I would like it to fit better.

And I can [00:51:00] use that particular muzzle and assuming that they haven’t modified it or we can just measure the muzzle, I can work off of the muzzles measurements too and modify from there. So like if they’re in a particular model of muzzle, well, I’ll just use the Baskervilles because they’re a great starter muzzle.

But like if they’re in a Baskerville size four and it doesn’t give them enough pant room, I know that I can add an inch of pant space and I know exactly what that size muzzle is going to be when we get it out to them.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. earlier you were talking about dogs who will resource guard their muzzle and some of the things that you found helpful.

And I am very curious to hear more about some of the things that you found to be most helpful and effective when we’re trying to condition a dog who is a resource guarder. Whether it’s a novel object that we happen to give them or put on their faces or if they’re guarding the actual food itself.

What are some things that you found to be [00:52:00] helpful for those types of dogs?

Amy: Yeah, so those types of dogs, you wanna be really careful about feeding food in the muzzle. Mm-hmm. Um, especially if there’s like soft foods that get stuck in the muzzle because now it’s a food item. Mm-hmm. Or could potentially be viewed as a food item.

So feeding outside the muzzle. So like you were describing earlier. With the adding duration to your training. Like, okay, you’re gonna stick your nose in here and hold still for three seconds, and then instead of feeding inside the muzzle, you can mark and feed them outside the muzzle so that they’re practicing leaving the muzzle, which is, I think, really important with resource guarders.

Jessica: Yeah.

Amy: I had a recent trainer reach out to me, and this particular dog had guarded lots of items. Not just muzzles, but like leashes, the owner couldn’t get leashes off of the dog because the dog would guard a leash or harness. You know, those types of things, which might also be body handling, but I tend to see those.

Two behaviors go hand in hand anyway,

Jessica: Uhhuh.

Amy: Anyway, so [00:53:00] they were concerned about getting the muzzle off of the dog because you can undo a quick release pretty quickly, but then you’re still in close proximity to this dog who might be really upset about potentially losing its muzzle to you. So we actually found a a magnet clip.

So the clip goes together and it’s held together by magnets, but the way that it comes off is you flip the top open and the top actually had a tab attached to it, and it was a little loop. And I was like, when you clip this on, put a leash onto the tab so that you can step back six feet and all you have to do is tug on the leash.

The muzzle will fall off. And so like there are a lot of different things that we can do to modify the muzzles so that it’s safer to take them off if that’s a concern. And in this particular case this dog was a concern. So

Jessica: yeah, absolutely. So there was this specific tab that was held together by magnets that you could attach a [00:54:00] leash to.

So that way during this training process, as this dog was getting comfortable with this, they were able to pull on the tab from a distance and not have to be in close proximity. And I’m assuming that that tab was only for that purpose because, um, otherwise I could see somebody listening to this and then thinking that, doesn’t that mean that the muzzle could just come off of the dog if there was a little bit of pressure?

Amy: Yeah. And, and honestly we discussed this, that I don’t necessarily know that this would be a great clasp for a muzzle long term, because if the dog was rolling around in the grass or the dirt or something like that, there’s a good chance that that plate would also lift up. So long term, that’s probably not the best clasp to have the dog wearing. Um, but for the training process, they were in the stage where they needed to clip the muzzle on the dog.

But if they unclipped it, now, they’re really, really close to the dog. And the dog’s gonna guard it. We’ve got an issue. So they were able [00:55:00] to add this clip so that they could lift the plate up from a distance.

Jessica: Got it. Got it. I like that. And of course, when you’re using something like that, you’re doing it with the intention of building more comfortability for the dogs that you wouldn’t necessarily need to use that, it would be more secured later on down the road.

But I like that’s a very, very creative solution for a dog who you need to be able to remove the muzzle from a distance and especially during that point in that dog’s training process.

Amy: Yep. Yeah. And I’ve been doing this for five years, and I’ve only heard of two instances of this.

And one instance was this trainer that recently reached out to me, and the other one was a, world renowned trainer that worked with a lot of regression cases and they discussed that particular case in particular and I was like, oh, that’s an interesting concept.

Jessica: Cool. What is it about muzzle or muzzle training that you wish more trainers were aware of?

What is something that us as trainers could be doing [00:56:00] differently? Or even like, what, what is something that maybe we’re not really thinking about when it comes to muzzles

Amy: Okay. The training industry is very split in methodologies, right? That’s it.

Jessica: Sorry about that. Amy,

Amy: talk about this on your podcast today. But what I have found is that my company has straddled that divide very well. Like my product is used in both the balanced training perspective and then also from the positive reinforcement trainers as well.

Mm-hmm. And I talk to everybody. The thing that I see with my muzzles, or any muzzles really that I wish didn’t happen with the product is flooding.

Jessica: Having

Amy: a dog, wearing a muzzle does not mean that you should take your dog into situations that they’re not ready for. You know, just because they’re safe in that environment doesn’t necessarily mean that they should be in that environment.

It’s not necessarily doing your [00:57:00] training any. Good to take a dog that’s really uncomfortable around people into Home Depot just because they’re wearing a muzzle and they’re safe and they’re not gonna cause any damage. I’ve seen a lot of dogs wearing muzzles that are just shut down or panicked in.

Yes. Because they’ve pushed the training too far.

Jessica: I’m so glad that you brought that up. I didn’t even think about you as somebody who makes a muzzle might then see one of your muzzles on a dog who is being put in a situation that they a shouldn’t be in. Um, but then b is, is displaying a lot of stressed body language.

Mm-hmm. Um, wow. I, I never even thought about that, but that would make me really uncomfortable too.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And it’s. It’s hard to watch from, from my perspective because I’ve seen lots of body language and lots of dog behavior. Um, and I’ve seen, you know, lots of good progress made when kept under a threshold.

You know, just because this tool puts essentially the safety on the gun, you [00:58:00] know, creates a barrier between the dog’s mouth and their environment doesn’t necessarily mean that they should be put in those situations. It can be more traumatizing than beneficial.

Jessica: Yes. Yes, exactly.

Because we do tend to see a lot of that with some of these social media clips from certain. People in the industry where it’s a dog who is actively lunging and trying to bite everybody near them, but because they have a muzzle on somehow, it’s okay. And I’m really glad that you brought that point up because it’s not okay.

We still need to pay a lot of attention to how the dog feels about being in environments, and we’re using muzzles to keep people and, and the community, other dogs safe but we also need to think about the dog that’s wearing it and even their emotional safety you know, to, to put them in a situation where they [00:59:00] have a muzzle on, but they’re clearly trying to get everybody else away from them.

That’s not what is in the best interest of that dog.

Amy: Or even the people around them too. I mean, that can be pretty traumatizing to

Jessica: mm-hmm.

Amy: Have a large animal lunging at you.

Jessica: Absolutely. They’re not

Amy: able to put holes in you. It’s still hurtful and scary.

Jessica: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Very true. Okay, I’m glad that you brought that up.

Amy: Trying to see if there’s anything else I wish trainers knew about Muzzles. Talk to me. Send me an email. Yeah. I’m happy to talk muzzles anytime if you have question.

Jessica: Yes. No, I love it. I’m trying to think if there’s anything else that I wanted to ask about the muzzles. Was there anything about, even just muzzles in general that we haven’t touched on yet?

Amy: One of the things that I forgot to mention too, for reasons for Muzzling that we didn’t talk about was breed specific legislation. Mm-hmm. So, up until recently in Denver, if you and I live in Colorado if you. To drive through [01:00:00] Denver with a bully breed. They had to have two layers of management and one had to be a muzzle and I believe the other in a crate in order to legally drive through Denver with a bully or a pit bull.

And there are a lot of places that still require muzzles for those particular breeds or breed bands. Mm-hmm. Um, which is unfortunate. But another. Place where people you might see muzzles is on, like public transportation. It’s not so common in the, the US with dogs. But in Europe, in order to travel on public transportation with your dog, they have to be muzzled on that

public transportation, and it’s just commonplace. Like you walk up to the train, you put the muzzle on, you get on the train, you get off the train, you take the muzzle off. Like it’s not that big of a deal there.

Jessica: That’s good to know it makes a lot of sense in regards to when the breed specific legislation that they would require, something like that.

But also if you’re going to be having dogs on public transportation, there’s not very many dogs [01:01:00] that I could think of that would be perfectly comfortable with that. Um, in the sense of getting on, something that’s not a car. Lots of different types of people that are gonna be moving around suitcases.

Lots of like big, bulky objects the dog could easily get stepped on. There’s so many reasons why a dog would probably feel very threatened in that particular space. So a muzzle would certainly solve all of that. Not solving the dog, not feeling safe, of course, but solving, um, you know, allowing them to go on to public transit.

And again, if your dog feels really uncomfortable in those situations probably not the best idea to put them in there anyways.

Amy: Yep. Totally. Totally. Yeah.

Jessica: Exactly. Gosh. Well, this has been really enlightening, Amy.

I think it’s really important that we’re having this conversation because I’m hoping that the more that people just learn about muzzle training, not only do they learn about the importance of the correct fit, the importance of making sure that the dog can’t actually bite through the muzzle.

Um, there’s so many [01:02:00] considerations that are not particularly obvious when people are beginning this muzzle training path. So I’m really glad that you came on to chat about this and also just wanted to thank you for what you do because the fact that you do custom muzzles and that you do your best to ensure that everybody is getting the most accurate fit and that you do education, both with trainers and with the general public.

It’s such a needed service and I know, I’m very glad to know you that you’re in the world.

Amy: Thank you. Thank you. I’m so glad to be here. And yeah, use me as a resource. I’m here.

Jessica: Okay, we sure will. I’m gonna make sure that I put all of your information in the show notes so that way people have a way to find you.

Amy: Awesome. Thank you so much, Jessica.

Jessica: Yes, thank you.

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